feministhistorian:

hugginangryfeminist:

fuckyeahchoice:

prolife4ever:

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.

- Adolf Hitler

No matter how many times you claim that a fetus is not a baby, it will still be a baby. Goodnight everyone, God bless!

My arguments stand no matter what you want to call it. A baby or a fetus, only the person carrying it gets a say in what it is to them- if it’s a miracle or if it’s hell.

Fuck whatever fantasy world you are living in. 

I don’t understand how anti-choicers can continue to compare abortion to the holocaust and think themselves to be decent human beings. 

Your argument becomes invalid when you fucking quote Hitler.

But.. it’s not a claim. It is entirely factual. Fetus =/= Baby, they have entirely different medical definitions so it seems pretty appropriate to say only the person carrying the fetus gets to decide what it personally means to them.

inherhipstheresrevolutions:

propaganda-for-life:

whodreamedit:

I got this through my mailbox today.  This was my response:

Mr. Conder,

Today I received your note on abortion through my mailbox, and I would like to respond to several points you raised.  I hope you won’t mind me doing so, as you provided an e-mail address (and so presumably desire feedback).

In the first place, I would argue that abortion is not ‘the ultimate’ form of child abuse.  This argument is logically invalid given that ‘child’ implies a conscious, sentient human baby able to feel pain and process emotions such as fear, anxiety and concern (emotions and feelings consistent with the abuse you claim ‘victims’ of abortion would feel - emotions and feelings that would constitute abuse).  Most abortions are performed within the first trimester.  In Western Australia, it is illegal for a woman to abort her fetus after the 20th week of pregnancy (eight weeks before the beginning of the third trimester) unless the baby is likely to be born with a severe medical condition.  Given that fetus does not develop even the beginnings of a brain stem until 7 weeks, and is not capable of consciousness until the third trimester (some scientists believe consciousness does not even occur until birth) it is logically invalid to call the abortion of an embryo or fetus ‘child abuse’.  The fetus is not conscious.  The neocortex (which is responsible for pain reception) does not develop until early on in the third trimester (well after the cut-off date for elective abortions).  Therefore, to say the abortion of a first - or even a second trimester fetus - is abusive is ludicrous.  I point you to this article on fetal brain and cognitive development by Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D: http://brainmind.com/FetalBrainDevelopment.html

To resume - you go on to express you shock and disappointment that 95 state politicians refuse to ‘do anything’ to end abortion, and that none of them would help introduce a private member’s bill on the subject into parliament.  Mr. Conder, we in Australia are fortunate enough to live in a democracy.  Whilst I have the greatest respect for people who stand up for what they find to be injust within our society and government, I can’t help but feel that if (as you put it) the “…population seems to accept it,” that might indicate that the majority is in favour of abortion, rather than against it. 

Your statistics regarding the number of babies to die every 14 minutes confused me.  Is that one baby every 14 minutes in Western Australia?  In Australia?  In the southern hemisphere?  In the world?  You imply (given the context of your note) that these babies are all aborted fetuses.  This seems highly unlikely given that the number of reported legal abortions in W.A. in 2008 was 5738.  That means that in 2008, in W.A., 0.01 fetuses were aborted every minute (0.14 every 14 minutes). Even allowing for a massive swell in the number of legal abortions in W.A. since 2008, and a small margin of growth for unreported abortions (legal or otherwise), I find it highly unlikely that that tiny figure could have swelled from 0.14 per 14 minutes to 1. I found those 2008 statistics here - http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/index.html - if it interests you.  Admittedly the number of abortions in the USA (for example) is much higher, but given their much larger population, that is to be expected.  Also, your note seems to be targeted primarily at W.A. as a state, therefore statistics from other states (and certainly other countries) don’t seem to be particularly relevent to the discussion.

Admittedly, another site I found cited the number of abortions in Australia as likely much higher (80,000 - 90,000 per year) and whilst to me this seems like a more accurate figure than a meagre 5738, the source is a pro-life website (who seem to have more to gain by skewing statistics in their favor).  They say their source is ‘‘Pregnancy Outcome in South Australia 2002’ Department of Human Services, Government of South Australia’, which leaves me baffled as to whether this is an Australiawide or statewide figure (though the numbers would suggest it to be nationwide).  These statistics support your claim, if your initial claim was one death every 14 minutes Australiawide - but since you didn’t clarify, this becomes confusing.  You may view these statistics on this site: http://www.lifenetwork.org.au/_blog/Abortion_in_Australia/tag/Statistics/

I question your argument that ‘abortionists’ like Marie Stopes are “laughing all the way to bank” as the ‘abortionist’ you mention in this statement (Marie Stopes) is an international not-for-profit organisation.  I’m not sure which bank they are supposedly luaghing all the way to.  Furthermore, to suggest that any medical practitioner provides a service to the community in some misguided attempt at a get rich scheme is to severely undermine the work that they (meaning any medical practitioner) do.  That the medical practitioners who assist women in terminating pregnancies are carrying out an act you disagree with does not mean that they are any more or less motivated by financial gain than any other medical practitioner (be they pediatrician, surgeon, gynecologist, or anything else).

You are also incorrect that nobody ‘says or does’ anything to protest abortion in Western Australia.  A quick google search points me here: http://www.righttolife.asn.au/wa/default.htm  and here: http://www.prolife.org.au/ .  I am sure there are many local events these groups organise to which you could devote your time, where your voice would be heard and you could better aid your cause.

In closing, I would like to remind you that the Bible does not anywhere articulate a clear viewpoint on the issue of abortion.  Whilst every life is undeniably sacred (both Biblically and, one should hope, morally) the Bible also fails to confirm when exactly ‘life’ is said to begin.  In Genesis 2:7 we are told that God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being” but this refers specifically to the creation of Adam and Eve, which does not involve human sexual reproduction, conception or birth.  In Exodus 21:22-23 it is in fact implied that a fetus does not have the same legal status as a person, since if a man were to a push a woman who then miscarried, he would be required only to pay a fine, whereas if the fetus were considered a full person he would be punished more severely (as if he had taken a life). 

In my personal opinion, we should nurture and love the children that are born to us.  We should do our best never to hurt them, emotionally or otherwise.  We should never, ever, degrade, abuse or harm them.  Unfortunately many unplanned (or more accurately unwanted) pregnancies have the potential to end in situations where children are neglected, or worse. 

Ultimately, the choice to carry a fetus to term should lie with the individual who is pregnant: the individual woman (with the help and support of those whose views and opinions she values).  It is her body.  It is her choice.  No other man, woman or government should be able to dictate for her an event which is so completely life changing.  For anyone else to decide for her is to completely devalue the experience of pregnancy and the decision to (or to not) become a mother.

I hope you’ll consider the opinions I’ve expressed here, as I took the time to consider yours. 

Sincerely,

Whodreamedit

There are a few forms of child abuse that are a bit more “ultimate” than abortion, especially considering that a fetus cannot feel pain. Here are a few off the top of my head, in no particular order (obvious trigger warning):

• Child sex crimes
• Child slavery
• Battery against a child
• Verbal abuse against a child
• Actual child murder

Now, about the last one: don’t you dare compare abortion to murder. This comparison is so ignorant it makes my blood boil. People who make this comparison have obviously never experienced for themselves the pain of an actual child being actually murdered. Until that happens in your life, and I sincerely hope it does not, don’t you dare compare the two. You have no right to speak about it with such authority.

 <3 although the ciscentric language at the end disappointed me. But fuck yeah!

afunnyfeminist:

alexholzbach:

“The pro-life movement condones and PAYS people who have committed violence. It is part of their tactic. You cannot say the same about the pro-choice movement.

PS - Do you think Operation Rescue is a legitimate pro-life organization? And if so, how do you feel about them…

This is pretty fantastic already, but I need to take this douche nozzle down further. It appears that you’re both talking about violent extremists or terrorists committing acts of violence or murder to further a political agenda. So when listing people who were charged or found guilty of said terrorism, violence, and murder, you would think Alex would have been careful to, you know, do that. And I, as a pro-choicer, was interested to read about these pro-choice terrorists who have been murdering protestors, clergy, and politicians, simply for wanting abortion to be illegal. While I wouldn’t be personally responsible for these acts of violence, I would have liked to personally denounce them, because I think it’s important for people to do that to the extremists in their movement, rather than make excuses about lone wolves and whatever. But I don’t know if Alex didn’t read the links he provided, or if he forgot what the discussion was about. But if he wanted to show that there are as many pro-choice terrorists out there as pro-life ones, then he failed big time. Alrighty,  it’s takedown time.

James Latham Peters: Not an abortion doctor, by the way. This man is actually an anesthesiologist, but one would have to read two paragraphs of the linked article to learn that! Anyway, 50 patients who obtained abortions at the clinic where he works were infected with the same strain of Hepatitis C that he has, allegedly in the course of providing the abortions. If Mr. Peters did infect the women with Hepatitis C, and whether this was an accidental or purposeful transmission, it’s malpractice, and what happened to these women is terrible. But this is not evidence of pro-choice terrorism, maleficence, or wrongful death.

Kermit Gosnell: Also not an abortion doctor (see page 38). He never finished an OB/GYN residency and isn’t qualified or licensed to perform any obstetrics or gynecological procedures. Furthermore, pro-choice organizations in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania reported the clinic, but the regulatory body that is supposed to listen, didn’t. Patients at the clinic, who were mostly poor immigrant women, had to fill out cumbersome forms available only in English to lodge a complaint against Gosnell. Additionally, killing newborn babies is not abortion. Mr. Gosnell performed back-alley abortions that pro-choicers want eliminated. Keep abortion safe and legal.

Theodore Shulman: The link provided didn’t say what Alex said it said. It doesn’t say anything about being financially or politically tied with any pro-choice organization, and that’s what this discussion is supposed to be about. The fact that his mother is pro-choice is not evidence of this. He also called himself the “first pro-choice terrorist,” which kinda sorta debunks your entire argument. I’ll still give Alex this one, even though the points he tried to make weren’t made. Mr. Shulman made terroristic threats, and that is inexcusable and wrong, and I’m glad that he was apprehended. 

Gary Boyle: He displayed a firearm in front of protestors as he was driving away from his clinic. The doctor is claiming self-defense, due to the indisputable fact that anti-choice protestors have committed violence and murder against abortion providers all over the country for decades. According to the article, the trial will pretty much be a debate between the distinction of pointing a firearm (illegal) and publicly displaying a firearm (totally legal). I sincerely believe that Dr. Boyle felt threatened by the protestors, who harass people trying to obtain a nationally and internationally legally protected medical procedure. But I don’t think he should have waved a firearm in front of people like that. That was wrong.

Andrew Rutland: A woman died during an abortion procedure at his clinic, due to his negligence. This is another reason why pro-choicers fight for safe legal abortion. Again, this is not evidence of pro-choice terrorism or violence. It’s medical negligence, and he thankfully will not practice again. Patients die during medical procedures, and abortion is one of the safest medical procedures when it’s done by competent professionals. But when it’s botched, it can cause injury and death, just like any other medical procedure.

So, in a debate about anti-choice murderers and terrorists being connected to legitimate high-profile pro-life organizations, Alex rebuts with five people who were not yet convicted of anything or connected to any legitimate high-profile pro-choice organization, including two people who he labels as abortion doctors who are not abortion doctors, two people who allegedly threatened violence that harmed exactly no one, and a doctor whose negligence (not political zealotry) tragically caused a woman’s death during a routine medical procedure that is usually extremely safe. A seriously sad attempt at pwnage.

Please, pro-lifers. Own the extremists. Don’t support the extremists. Don’t pretend you’ve never heard of the extremists. Don’t pretend that pro-choicers are just as bad. I was prepared to denounce the pro-choice terrorists that I thought Alex was going to talk about, but he didn’t do that. This was the best he could do to claim that pro-choice extremists are just as bad? I probably did more research replying to this nonsense than he did formulating his argument.

propaganda-for-life:

This is a growing list. If you ever want me to add an argument here, just say so! Here is a shorter version of it by solo1y.

Last edit: 5/7/2011

1. Fetal Pain:
   Fetuses cannot feel pain before 24 weeks, at which point elective abortion is usually illegal and almost never happens in the…

This was put up a while ago but I want it on my site too.